Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/24/1998 01:15 PM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
March 24, 1998
1:15 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Scott Ogan, Co-Chairman
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair
Representative Fred Dyson
Representative Joe Green
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Bill Hudson, Co-Chairman
Representative Ramona Barnes
Representative William K. (Bill) Williams
Representative Irene Nicholia
Representative Reggie Joule
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 414
"An Act relating to management of game and to the duties of the
commissioner of fish and game."
- HEARD AND HELD
HOUSE BILL NO. 284
"An Act relating to infestations and diseases of timber."
- HEARD AND HELD
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 414
SHORT TITLE: MANAGEMENT OF GAME
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) KELLY
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
2/16/98 2331 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
2/16/98 2331 (H) RESOURCES
3/10/98 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
3/10/98 (H) MINUTE(RES)
3/19/98 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
3/19/98 (H) MINUTE(RES)
3/24/98 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 284
SHORT TITLE: TIMBER THREATENED BY PESTS OR DISEASE
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) HODGINS
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
5/10/97 1807 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
5/10/97 1807 (H) RESOURCES
3/12/98 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
3/12/98 (H) MINUTE(RES)
3/24/98 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
WITNESS REGISTER
DICK BISHOP, Representative
Alaska Outdoor Council
P.O. Box 73902
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
Telephone: (907) 455-4262
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 414 and HB
284.
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison
Office of the Commissioner
Department of Fish and Game
P.O. Box 25526
Juneau, Alaska 99802-5526
Telephone: (907) 465-6143
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 414.
BRUCE CAMPBELL, Legislative Assistant
to Representative Pete Kelly
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 411
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-2327
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony for the sponsor on HB 414.
TOM MANNINEN, Legislative Administrative Assistant
to Representative Mark Hodgins
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 110
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-3779
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony for the sponsor on HB 284.
BRUCE BAKER
P.O. Box 211384
Auke Bay, 99821
Telephone: (Not provided)
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 284.
GEORGE MATZ
14345 Cody Circle
Anchorage, Alaska 99516
Telephone: (907) 345-3139
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 284.
DAN STEIN
1712 Gilmore Trail
Fairbanks, Alaska 99712
Telephone: (907) 458-9386
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 284.
DOUGLAS YATES
P.O. Box 221
Ester, Alaska 99725
Telephone: (907) 479-8300
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in opposition to HB 284.
DAVE WALLINGFORD
Department of Natural Resources
3601 "C" Street, Suite 1034
Anchorage, Alaska 99503-5937
Telephone: (907) 269-8450
POSITION STATEMENT: Attending the meeting for Jeff Jahnke, state
forester.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 98-37, SIDE A
Number 0001
[DUE TO TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES THE TAPE IS BARELY AUDIBLE]
CO-CHAIRMAN SCOTT OGAN called the House Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:15 p.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives Ogan, Masek, Dyson, and Green.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated he will take public testimony only. There
isn't a quorum to take any action yet.
HB 414 - MANAGEMENT OF GAME
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced the first order of business was House
Bill Number 414, "An Act relating to management of game and to the
duties of the commissioner of fish and game."
Number 0086
DICK BISHOP, Representative, Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC),
testified in Juneau. The delegates of the AOC recently voted to
support HB 414. The AOC has worked with the sponsor on the
language. It fills an important gap in game management policy by
directing the Board of Game to establish regulations, promoting
high levels of harvest, and specifying cooperation between the
board and the Department of Fish and Game. The AOC also supports
establishing personal and family use for consumptive as the highest
and best use of game. The priority is already implied in statute,
for example state law requires saving meat from game. It is also
central to the values of all hunters - sport, subsistence, general
or food. The findings accurately reflect the ongoing challenge of
providing for these legitimate human uses. In general,
nonconsumptive uses benefit from a (indis.) game population also.
There is no inherent incompatibility between consumptive and
nonconsumptive uses of game. The amendment that has been offered
addresses the concern of opening areas that are presently closed
arbitrarily by providing a rational basis. The AOC urges the
passage of the bill.
Number 0300
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner,
Department of Fish and Game, stated when it comes to deciding among
the different uses of fish and game the board system has worked
well by allowing people to argue their points. The department
thinks that is the best way to allocate the use of these resources.
He has provided a list from Title 5 of the areas closed by Board of
Game regulations for hunting and trapping. Some of the closures
were established specifically to protect or enhance wildlife
viewing opportunities, such as the McNeil River State Sanctuary.
It is doubtful whether they would remain closed. McNeil River is
closed by statute, but there are many other areas, including the
game refuge around it, that are closed by regulation. The
department is not quite in agreement with the bill yet.
Number 0460
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated the definition of the term "game" in the
dictionary is "wild animals, birds, fish hunted for food or sport."
He suggested that the Department of Fish and Game look at the
definition.
Number 0485
MR. BRUCE further stated he recognizes that the sponsor has
attempted to remove the conflict with a subsistence priority use.
Number 0540
BRUCE CAMPBELL, Legislative Assistant, to Representative Pete
Kelly, Alaska State Legislature, stated there is an amendment based
on testimony from the last hearing. It reads as follows:
TO: HB 414
Page 3, line 7, following "game.":
Insert "(a)"
Page 3, line 8, following "family":
Delete all material
Insert "consumption. The other"
Page 3, following line 11:
Insert a new subsection to read:
"(b) Notwithstanding (a) of this section, the
Board of Game may maintain a regulatory
closure of an area to hunting or trapping that
is in effect on the effective date of this
subsection if the repeal of the closure would
(1) create a significant risk to public
safety;
(2) pose a risk to continued sustained yield
management of a game population;
(3) not significantly enhance opportunities
for personal and family use of game for human
consumption; or
(4) interfere with the rebuilding of a big
game prey population to a level of abundance
that would support a high level for human
harvest."
MR. CAMPBELL stated the original language, human consumption,
narrowed the priority producing a conflict with the current
subsistence priority and other anticipated priorities. Mr. Saxby
from the Department of Law suggested taking the reference to people
and food from the equation and to go back to personal and family
consumptive use. Subsistence means more than just food in many
areas. It may mean simply participating in a lifestyle, but it is
a consumptive use. The intent is not to narrow that part of the
debate, but rather to add a preference for consumptive use over
nonconsumptive use.
MR. CAMPBELL stated adding a new subsection to the bill would allow
the Board of Game to maintain regulatory closures of an area to
hunting or trapping based on four reasons -
(1) create a significant risk to public safety;
(2) pose a risk to continued sustained yield management
of a game population;
(3) not significantly enhance opportunities for
personal and family use of game for human
consumption; or
(4) interfere with the rebuilding of a big game prey
population to a level of abundance that would
support a high level for human harvest.
Number 0885
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Mr. Campbell how would the amendment affect
control use areas.
Number 0890
MR. CAMPBELL replied the amendment would allow control use areas to
remain.
Number 0951
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated for the record that three members are not
present in Juneau today - Representatives Williams, Barnes and
Hudson. They are representing the state in other activities.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced the bill will be held over.
HB 284 - TIMBER THREATENED BY PESTS OR DISEASE
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced the next order of business was House
Bill Number 284, "An Act relating to infestations and diseases of
timber."
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated there is still not a quorum so there will
be public testimony only.
Number 1045
TOM MANNINEN, Legislative Administrative Assistant, to
Representative Mark Hodgins, Alaska State Legislature, stated he is
here to introduce an amendment. It reads as follows:
TO: HB 284
Page 2, line 20, following "chapter":
Insert ", other than a requirement of or a
regulation adopted under AS 41.17.115 - 41.17.119."
MR. MANNINEN explained the amendment would prohibit the
commissioner of natural resources from waiving the requirements of
41.17.115 - 41.17.119 that deal with riparian management, riparian
standards for private lands, riparian standards for state land, and
minimum riparian standards for other public land.
MR. MANNINEN referred to a handout illustrating the infestation on
the Kenai Peninsula and Southcentral.
MR. MANNINEN further stated Representative Hodgins is very
concerned about the fire risks, public safety, and maximum use of
the resource. Representative Hodgins respectfully asks that the
committee take action on the bill when there is a quorum.
Number 1212
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated the amendment would not allow the
commissioner to waive stream setbacks.
Number 1275
BRUCE BAKER testified in Juneau. He was employed by the United
States Forest Service for 12 years as a forester and forest
entomologist (insect specialist). He has worked on forest insect
populations throughout Alaska, including spruce beetles on the
Kenai Peninsula. He also served for 11 years as a deputy director
in the Department of Fish and Game. He and his wife own a small
woodlot. House Bill 284 is bad public policy. It's narrow-minded,
caters to special interests, lacks either an economic or biological
basis, and bars the public from the Department of Natural Resources
(DNR) decision process.
MR. BAKER explained the bill uses native forest insects and
diseases as excuses to fast-track timber sales. He cannot think of
a single native Alaskan forest insect or disease, the build up and
spread of which is likely to be affected over a significant area by
salvage logging dead standing trees. Forest insect populations and
diseases built up when forest conditions become favorable for them
to do so. This bill confuses symptoms with underlying cause. It
confuses the salvage utilization of wood fiber with basic forest
biology.
MR. BAKER explained the bill makes it a requirement that DNR enter
a salvage agreement with a private owner or public manager. Native
forest insects and diseases are natural disturbance events, and
even when some of them reach levels alarming to humans, they play
important roles in natural forest habitat renewal. Wildlife
managers, commercial tourism businesses, non-commercial
recreationists, and private forest owners may define forest health
and the need for salvage very differently than DNR and the timber
industry do.
MR. BAKER explained the bill requires that if infested or diseased
trees on state or municipal land are thought to pose "an
environmental catastrophe," timber is to be "salvaged" as rapidly
as possible. A catastrophe is in the eye of the beholder, and by
ignoring effects on wildlife, the bill ignores the state's
constitutional mandate that all renewable resources be managed on
the sustained yield principle. The bill ignores the question of
whether the alleged benefits of timber salvage and logging roads
would justify their adverse impacts on wildlife or recreational
opportunities. For example, it has been demonstrated that
increased "roading" can be damaging to brown bears because of
increased poaching and the killing of bears in the name of the
protection of life and property.
MR. BAKER stated the bill amends existing law by allowing DNR to
put up salvage sales of less than 200 acres without preparing a
plan of operation that is subject to agency and public review under
the Forest Practices Act.
MR. BAKER stated the bill implies that salvage of dead trees can be
expected to "eliminate" an insect or disease condition. There is
absolutely no evidence that a native forest insect or disease can
be "eliminated" from Alaska, and it is misleading to the public to
suggest otherwise.
MR. BAKER stated the bill fails to acknowledge alternative means of
preventing or reducing fuel accumulation that results from years of
fire suppression in fire-prone forests. An obvious option would be
the use of prescribed burning in which site access is by helicopter
rather than roads.
MR. BAKER stated the economics of HB 284 are seriously flawed
because it requires state salvage regardless of whether they turn
a profit, and it fails to acknowledge the economic values of
resources that may be negatively impacted by the effects of logging
and increased roading.
MR. BAKER stated by forcing big government down the throats of
private forest owners, the bill is an invasion of private property
rights. A private forest owner's only recourse will be to show in
court how salvage of their dead timber will not benefit adjacent
landowners.
Number 1500
DICK BISHOP, Representative, Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC),
testified in Juneau. The AOC at its annual meeting voted in favor
of the bill. It is going in the right direction. Amendments might
be appropriate, but the AOC has not come up with any yet. It is
right to harvest beetled-killed timber as expeditiously as
possible. He suggested specifically mentioning a reference to the
creation of wildlife habitats. There is the potential in logging,
natural fires, and prescribed burnings for taking measures that
will greatly enhance wildlife habitats and populations.
Number 1631
GEORGE MATZ testified via teleconference in Anchorage. He opposes
HB 284. Fiscally, it comes at a time when the state needs to
concentrate on existing programs with established needs rather than
starting a new program. Economically, it is not feasible.
Scientifically, it is based more on alchemy rather than biology.
In addition, the Division of Forestry has stated that salvaging
won't control spruce bark beetles. It also takes private land. He
has land in the Rabbit Creek area in Anchorage, and last year he
noticed a few signs of spruce bark beetle infestation. He would
want some compensation for taking his trees, otherwise he would
take the state to court. In court the state would have a hard time
proving it is an ecological catastrophe. He suggested looking at
the recommendations from the Kenai Peninsula task force. They will
be a lot less emotional and more logical.
Number 1890
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN explained there is a bill requiring the government
to compensate private property owners anytime land is taken by
regulation. It is a two-way street. There are a lot of private
property owners that would like the law.
MR. MATZ stated the bill says the commissioner "shall" enter into
an agreement with the owner. It is a very Gestapo approach when it
has not been proven that it is a public health concern or an
overriding public need. The fiscal note should take into account
all the compensation requested.
Number 1992
DAN STEIN testified via teleconference in Fairbanks. He is opposed
to the bill. The change is important, but (5) should be dropped
from the bill because there are many other things that could be
waived by the commissioner.
Number 2036
DOUGLAS YATES testified via teleconference in Fairbanks. He is
opposed to the bill. He recommends that the bill be put on hold,
until the recommendations are made public from the Kenai task
force.
Number 2058
DAVE WALLINGFORD, Department of Natural Resources, announced he is
sitting in for Jeff Jahnke, state forester, who is on the Kenai
Peninsula attending the first spruce bark beetle task force
meeting. He is here to answer any questions.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced the bill will be held over.
ADJOURNMENT
Number 2075
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN adjourned the House Resources Standing Committee
meeting at 1:49 p.m.
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